Listen to Ellen as a guest on the btchfest podcast on Why do we get caught in relationships that are bad for us:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6Ft9HfhLwvEkfZURePm4mx?si=cfe2e089d13d4afc
Listen to Ellen as a guest on The Modality Podcast with Pinnacle Peak recovery on Emotionally Focused Therapy for Couples:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5ltaE1S9VMfwrep4O9l5s1?si=ef8354b1c0e04cde